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"Хеломскiя Вѣдомости"
Самые классические хохмы с полным и немедленным разоблачением
Соплеменники в строю 
28th-Jan-2017 08:02 pm

Маша Гессен нашла себя

Писать про перельманов - тощища, тем более, что Перельман - не педераст, на этой ниве не пожнёшь. Писать про путинократию - ломиться в открытую дверь. Наша Маша обрила обрела цель: ДАИШ даёшь Америке стотыщь шахидов, ничем не отличающихся от предков Марка Цукерберга (разве что тем, что стоящие в очереди шахиды уже никак не окажутся предками Марка Цукерберга).

Не упустите возможности наехать на элитные школы. Маша - пятисемитка, хоть и расово неполноценная.

♣ Когда вы не сможете прочесть эту надпись здесь, вы сможете всегда её прочесть тут. А Оккам пусть бреется сам своей бритвой.

28th-Jan-2017 08:00 pm (UTC)
possibly, but THREE percent in this group is too low for this statistic.

28th-Jan-2017 08:46 pm (UTC)
Из той волны многие уже умерли или "выпали из обоймы".
28th-Jan-2017 09:06 pm (UTC)
that's one plausible explanation. another - that "zastoiniki" are apolitical.
29th-Jan-2017 04:24 am (UTC)
If you go over the list again, you will find that there are 100 people there who emigrated in the 70's. So, 13%, not 3%. This group is actually OVERrepresented in the list, once one makes correction for the total number of emigres in each year.
29th-Jan-2017 01:53 pm (UTC)
i was too lazy to do it manually, was an excel program, maybe i messed up, but i am no longer interested in this. "my" group is actually 1970-1977. the next group is 1978-1987. the rest is peri-perestroika group.

there are significant differences, social, geographic, and enthnic, between the three groups.
29th-Jan-2017 05:54 pm (UTC)
"there are significant differences, social, geographic, and enthnic, between the three groups."

Sure. As well as quantitative ones. The second group is several times larger than the first, and the third - several times larger than the second. No question about that.

Oh, and you were correct in that there are few, if any, true refugees among any of them. No question about that, either.
29th-Jan-2017 06:05 pm (UTC)
below, i told lbertarian my .. qualitative assessment of the first two groups.

even dissidents ( i forgot to include them in "my" group, but they were prominent there) - were not "refugees".

that is what makes this letter particularly toxic to me. -
29th-Jan-2017 06:20 pm (UTC)
I saw it. Can't argue with it - my view of the three waves is essentially the same.

Well... I beg to differ on the dissidents' account. But that does not change the fact that most of the people who signed the letter definitely are not, and have never been, refugees. Personally, even if I agreed with the letter's general sentiment - which I don't - I'd refuse to sign it on this basis alone: promoting myself into a 'refugee' would be an insult to actual refugees, of whom I've seen a few.
29th-Jan-2017 07:23 pm (UTC)
PPKS. Masha Gessen i bet is the author.

BTW - this is something you probably don't know and i feel a little ashamed to say, but i will anyway - i met Masha Gessen when she was a teenager and i was a young wife and mother. i am 6 years older, so i was prolly 23 or 22 and she 17. it must have been in 1984, maybe even 1985. i did not talk to her, i was an "adult" and russian kids usually don't talk to random russian adults. i immediately disliked her family. they are or were moscow snobs of the worst kind ( and i am from moscow, too). they are .... or were.. a hateful type of a russian intel jew. the way they talk, the mannerisms, the poseuring, the way they pay attention differently to people of different "worth" in their fucked-up little emigre socium - it was nauseating to watch them, which was all i did. on several occasions.

i allow for some youthful hubris here, but. these are the second set of people i first met when i moved to boston ( the firs set was "provincialy" and a sweet kompania, or tusovka) - and i remember the revolt and the disgust very vividly. personally i was "above" them in social class, local education, assimilation, and prosperity - so it was not "sour grapes". but the feeling of revolt was very strong.

i wonder about her. growing up in this, she prolly did no see what i saw.

29th-Jan-2017 09:16 pm (UTC)
Looks like we are about the same age - I was born in '62. Can't say anything about Masha or her family, as I wouldn't know them from Adam - but the phenomenon is quite familiar.

Saw this among the emigres of each wave, and before that - back in Moscow, in both Jewish and Russian families. Yes, I am originally from there, too. Actually, have some examples of same in my own family, although nowhere near as vicious towards their social 'inferiors' as some of the 'intellekshuls' of that sort I've had a displeasure to meet, both in the old country and in this one.

What can I say? Some things are universal for humankind, regardless of origin and culture. A certain percentage of holier-than-though assholes seems to be one of them.
29th-Jan-2017 09:39 pm (UTC)
suppose so, and time to forget what i saw almost half a century ago. not all in this "tusovka" were disgusting, just a few people, but they must have touched off my autistic persona in a certain way. i am glad it is not just me. and i agree it that it is a human as opposed to an ethnic feature. however i had not seen it in americans. yet. poles, germans, argentinians in the US - absolutely yes. but not the "titular" americans, who were brought up to be polite, helpful, and pleasant to all regardless of their perceived social value.

suppose it is different for Trump and the like.

the latest tense trump-discourse with my democratic montana spouse was about the perceptions and universes/cultures people live in. meaning, if you are a trump, you may actually grow to be disrespectful to women, because you are surrounded by bimbos and golddiggers, and you learn not to trust them. D's answer was that giving in to such feelings is a bad personal trait, and i agree there. but i had to give him several examples of hollywood and sillicon sexual paranoids, inc. Lucas and Spielberg and Jobs - until he conceded that i have a point or two. it takes a titan of a human to stay normal under such pressures.

offtopic, sorry, i shut up now.
29th-Jan-2017 11:03 pm (UTC)
It's interesting that American literature DOES have quite a few examples of such people. But my personal experience has been the same as yours in this regard: I have seen such behavior from a certain percentage of the first-generation immigrants - but have never been treated this way by Americans who were born here to American-born parents.

In my first couple years in the country, the company I worked for had a VP of sales for North-East, a 100% old-money WASP with a Swedish last name. The guy owned an estate in Michigan, and I mean an _estate_: dozens, if not over a hundred, acres of land, a villa, a custom-built 'garage' (more like a museum) which housed his antique car collection... I have never, not once, seen him being condescending to anybody, or less than unfailingly polite to anybody. Workers at all businesses that bought our machines _loved_ him: when he was doing an on-site visit, the first people he went to talk to were the machine operators, and every wish, every complaint, every comment was immediately and accurately conveyed to both our management and engineering department. The guy was an absolutely fantastic equipment salesman - without ever doing anything crooked or unethical. Coming from the Soviet 'school' of on-the-job interaction, his way of behaving was an eye-opener to me. Frankly, I shamelessly copied some of the ways he dealt with people. :-)

OTOH, I later had to 'break in' a fresh UCLA engineering graduate, a kid from Guatemalan immigrant family. Guy was (still is) quite well-educated, brilliant... and a total asshole towards those he considered his 'social inferiors'. Within two months none of our machinists wanted to have anything whatsoever to do with him - and the kid was completely oblivious to that.

These two examples are just the ones that kinda stand out in my memory when I talk about this topic - but over the years I have had plenty more, in the same vein.

What this tells me is that the phenomenon has been known here and people have been consciously striving to breed it out. And have, for the most part, succeeded. BTW, this may also explain some of the attitude toward certain groups of immigrants who bring in certain cultural mores which the locals no longer find acceptable.

P.S. As to the Trump's attitudes towards women - yes. It's easy to be virtuous and respectful when the only person interested in you is your wife, and even she won't hesitate to kick your ass if you step out of line. It's another kettle of fish entirely when dozens of starlet wannabes are throwing themselves at you, literally fighting for the chance. As much as many things that Trump has said and done rub me the wrong way, I do not think I am in any position to throw a stone at him for this particular sin. Nor, IMO, are 99+% of men in general, who haven't been tested in the same way. De Niro could - if he hadn't failed the same test abysmally. Harrison Ford could - but for some reason he is silent on that matter. Me? Not just no, but hell, no. :-)
29th-Jan-2017 11:46 pm (UTC) - this was a fun comment. thank you!
i had a boss like that. multimillionaire, collected ancient expensive race cars, built and flew planes, had a tall ship and a few estates in Vale Kali and NE - and was extremely nice and normal.

can happen...

very insightful re Trump and his trumpettes.

i did not know about DeNiro. that's too bad.

re "cultural modes".

i am very aware of those, painfully - being a medical educator, a CLINICAL educator in about 60% of my educational role. i see young doctors form the 'stans. most of them - really, most of them - are able to adopt the values we are talking about - respect for the patient, restraint, non-paternalism, empathy, clarity. it's great.

but those who cannot do it - are toxic. and dangerous. sometimes they have a hard landing, but most of the times they are pushed through and graduate. which is disgusting, really....
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